This transcript was created utilizing speech recognition software program. Whereas it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it could include errors. Please evaluate the episode audio earlier than quoting from this transcript and e-mail transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions.
- anna foley
-
OK. So we’re getting into CPAC Central? That’s what it’s known as?
- astead herndon
-
CPAC Central. Dun, dun, dun, dun.
Yearly at CPAC, the Conservative Political Motion Convention, there appears to be an unstated competitors of who can stand out probably the most. Individuals put on wild outfits. This 12 months, I noticed a Trump ball robe, $400 MAGA sneakers, a person carrying his pet cat round his shoulders. However the factor that I’ll keep in mind most from CPAC this 12 months —
- astead herndon
-
Oh, wow.
— was somewhat sales space on the bottom flooring of the convention heart.
- astead herndon
-
So it’s a virtualized pinball recreation that — oh, my goodness — has various things signifying January 6. So, pretend information, cease the steal, peaceable protest, Ashli Babbitt’s homicide, political prisoners, left ramp awards double freedom.
A customized pinball recreation constructed to memorialize the January 6 riot.
- jonathan linowes
-
I imply, I really use the phrase riot somewhat bit tongue in cheek. As a result of I don’t suppose it was an riot.
Although the creator, Jonathan Linowes, takes difficulty with that phrase.
- jonathan linowes
-
99 p.c p.c of the people who went there went there to a Trump rally to help the president. And so, I constructed the pinball machine that tries to carry the reality of what really occurred, versus the — what I take into account a manufactured narrative of what occurred on January 6.
To him, the sport is a reminder of the Nice Lie of the 2020 election.
- jonathan linowes
-
I don’t like dropping. However I hate to be cheated. And that’s what I used to be reacting to as a visceral response.
And to me, it’s a reminder that for lots of the CPAC crowd, Donald Trump isn’t simply the previous President and even the subsequent potential president. He’s the rightful president as a result of 2020 just isn’t over. The election continues to be stolen.
- astead herndon
-
What’s your belief degree? Are you able to price it from 1 to 10 in November?
- jonathan linowes
-
For a 1 to 10? In all probability a 4.
- astead herndon
-
What had been you want going into 2020?
- jonathan linowes
-
Oh, I might — a 9.
- astead herndon
-
You’re saying that’s what’s modified for you?
- jonathan linowes
-
Yeah, completely.
So with Trump marching towards the Republican nomination, and a rematch with President Biden in November, I got here to this conference heart outdoors Washington DC for somewhat temperature verify on election denial. Has MAGA moved on from 2020? Or is the one consequence they’ll belief in November a consequence the place Trump wins?
- astead herndon
-
Additionally, I might love — can I attempt it?
And, in fact, I needed to attempt the sport.
- astead herndon
-
Let’s go.
Mail-in ballots, voting machines, drop containers. You see that up there?
From “The New York Occasions,” I’m Astead Herndon. That is “The Run-Up.”
- archived recording (donald trump)
-
To be handled pretty by the media. The media is the most important drawback we now have.
- astead herndon
-
You see this? That is what’s known as talent. OK?
Aw.
- anna foley
-
Unhappy.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks.
Right here’s the factor. Ever because the 2020 election, when Donald Trump used his platform to unfold falsehoods in regards to the electoral system, Republicans have been in a pickle. On one hand, Trump and his allies have continued to name the voting course of corrupt, rigged towards him. And sown doubts about every little thing from early and mail-in ballots to digital voting machines.
However, Trump is operating within the 2024 election. And if he’s going to win, Republicans want as many individuals as doable to take part in that very system, nevertheless allegedly corrupt. And this dilemma is of explicit significance to the Republican Nationwide Committee, the get together’s management group, which has had a bumpy relationship with Trump, and is usually tasked with main efforts on voting mechanisms and election integrity.
So after enjoying some pinball, we headed to the principle corridor at CPAC to listen to a speech that was significantly related to that drawback.
- lara trump
-
OK, CPAC! How are we doing at present?
[CHEERS]
Fast query, the place are my MAGA, ultra-MAGA patriots at at present?
And once we walked in, Donald Trump’s daughter-in-law Lara Trump was on stage.
- lara trump
-
Properly, it’s nice to be again with you guys right here once more at CPAC. That is all the time such a deal with to come back. However I’ll let you know guys, we now have our work minimize out for us, don’t we?
Lara Trump is at present operating for RNC co-chair, hoping to be one of many leaders taking on for Ronna McDaniel, who formally stated this week that she’ll step down subsequent month.
- lara trump
-
So a few of you might have heard that I’ve had the good honor of being endorsed by my father-in-law President Trump to co-chair the Republican Nationwide Committee.
Donald Trump has thrown his help behind Lara, and she or he’s anticipated to coast by way of the election, simply win the place, and proceed Trump’s full seize of the Republican Occasion.
- lara trump
-
Properly, I’ll let you know guys, it is a place for which I by no means imagined I might run. However I additionally by no means imagined that our nation could be in such dire straits. It’s time for change. It’s time to combat. And it’s time to win, girls and gents. OK?
She spent a variety of her speech speaking about how necessary a Donald Trump victory could be.
- lara trump
-
And let me simply guarantee everybody right here of 1 factor. What occurred in 2020 can not and won’t ever occur once more. We should adapt. And we should combat hearth not with hearth, however with dynamite. We should and we are going to construct the strongest, most safe election operation that this get together has ever seen. That’s how we now have to do that, people.
She underscored election safety.
- lara trump
-
However we bought to adapt somewhat.
Then she made it clear flip.
- lara trump
-
As Republicans, I get it. We prefer to go vote on election day. It’s thrilling to be part of that day. It’s thrilling to fill out the poll for the long run chief of our nation. Heck, you even get somewhat sticker, after which you’ll be able to take a photograph and put up it on social media.
I do know. It’s very enjoyable. However the reality is, if we need to compete with the Democrats, we can not wait till election day. If we need to compete and win, we should embrace early voting.
She advocated for early voting and a few of the issues that Republicans and Donald Trump level to because the dishonest that led to the 2020 election being so-called stolen.
- lara trump
-
We want so many votes banked for Donald J. Trump that we’re not enjoying atone for election day. You go vote.
Now, Lara Trump was saying, these are literally the ways in which we’re going to win.
- lara trump
-
Each single day as much as and on November 5. As a result of this November, each single authorized vote issues.
She was asking CPAC to belief the system this time round. And that caught my consideration.
- lara trump
-
Thanks, guys. God bless you. Thanks.
So after that speech, I needed to verify in with a few of the leaders at CPAC — folks with massive audiences who as soon as pushed the election lie — to ask in the event that they had been fascinated about 2024 in the identical means.
- astead herndon
-
Are you able to introduce your self?
- jack posobiec
-
Hello, Jack Posobiec. Senior editor Human Occasions and the host of Human Occasions Day by day.
I discovered Jack Posobiec, the far-right political activist and commentator. He was one of many largest names to advertise election denial. You may also know his newer work, spreading the conspiracy that Taylor Swift is a authorities psy-op planning to get Biden reelected.
- astead herndon
-
I need to get to what, you already know, Lara Trump was saying on the stage yesterday. She was saying that Republicans have to embrace early voting, that Republicans have to embrace poll harvesting, even. I’m wondering what you considered this. Not simply — I do know who you need to win, however how are you all going to win? That query appears extra open. Even among the many folks right here, not everybody agrees on that.
- jack posobiec
-
Properly, I agree. There’s been — there’s a degree of consternation, I imagine, amongst a variety of conservatives at — what they might say, we’re conservatives. We like conserving issues. And so, for lots of conservatives, even myself included, that having one election day the place folks vote in particular person with ID checks is one thing that’s very, crucial to a variety of conservatives, and one thing I definitely would hope to attempt for.
That being stated, in lots of the states which can be going up for this election, we shouldn’t have these issues. We now have a brand new system, a system that by and huge got here in, or at the very least was drastically expanded, throughout 2020 due to COVID guidelines. Common mail-in ballots, early voting drastically expanded, and in addition to the drop containers.
And I imagine firmly that the Republicans, conservatives, no matter you need to name it should embrace any and all the above alternatives to vote. Vote early, get your ballots in, get them within the drop containers. And I say, hey, if in California they began accumulating ballots in church buildings, they began accumulating ballots in organized drives.
I feel these are the kinds of issues that I’d like to take a look at. And I’d definitely love to speak with the RNC and taking a look at methods to legally use these poll alternatives for the Republicans in addition to the Democrats have embraced it.
- astead herndon
-
I feel the issue right here is that Donald Trump continues to assail them, proper? Like, Donald Trump continues to say that mail-in voting or poll harvesting is corrupt, even. How do you all create these alternatives to win, as you’re speaking about, with the main candidate saying don’t do it?
- jack posobiec
-
Properly, definitely. I feel that if Lara Trump is ready to get in there on the RNC and have a look at the RNC’s present swath of operations in terms of ballots, everyone knows, clearly, she’s going to talk to her father-in-law about this and about what the plans are to go ahead. I feel everybody is aware of that she’s a giant, huge Trump supporter, in fact.
And so, I feel that if he sees the arrogance together with her operations and her plan for the way in which ahead, I feel we’ll get him to totally embrace it and absolutely be behind it.
- astead herndon
-
You simply — simply suppose, y’all will work on them. Ultimately you’ll suppose you’ll get them there by November. I suppose it appears the massive factor to beat earlier than November. You’re assured that you could flip that?
- jack posobiec
-
Properly, I feel, once more, we’ll be specializing in key states. So we don’t must give attention to it for in all places within the nation. 4 or 5 key states that we’re taking a look at, in fact, then increasing that out. So you’ve got your arduous swing states, your smooth swing states.
Clearly there are locations like Michigan, locations like — locations like Minnesota. Even Maryland, with their Senate race, that are actually approaching board for the Republicans in ways in which even frankly, I didn’t even know that Maryland could be on board. So I feel that’s an enormous pickup for Republicans. Look, there’s going to be some rising pains with any change. However I’m absolutely dedicated to, like I stated earlier than, any and all the above types of poll harvesting, poll chasing, mail-in ballots, drop containers. That is completely the place we have to go. And I’ve stated as a lot to the president himself.
- astead herndon
-
Hello, how are you? My identify is Astead. I host “The New York Occasions” politics podcast. You bought 5 minutes to speak to us?
- mark levin
-
You’re “The New York Occasions” podcast?
- astead herndon
-
Yeah, we’re “The New York Occasions —”
- mark levin
-
You need to discuss to me?
- astead herndon
-
And I need to discuss to you, yeah.
- mark levin
-
What do you need to know?
- astead herndon
-
First, I would like you to introduce your self so we are able to have it.
- mark levin
-
I’m Mark Levin. I’ve been in your “New York Occasions” bestseller listing 10 books in a row.
- astead herndon
-
Are you able to inform me what you do? I do know that’s an apparent query.
- mark levin
-
What do I do?
- astead herndon
-
Sure.
- mark levin
-
I eat. I’m going to the restroom after which I eat.
Mark Levin is a very talked-about conservative radio host. And a few of these Occasions bestsellers have titles like “Liberty and Tyranny” and “The Democrat Occasion Hates America.” He’s additionally been outspoken in claiming that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump and advocated for folks to, quote, “combat” on January 6.
- astead herndon
-
One of many issues we’re actually enthusiastic about here’s what ought to the RNC do across the query of vote? And the bigger query of, win?
- mark levin
-
That’s a very good query. As a philosophical matter, I don’t like several of these things. However the states get to resolve. So if the blue states are creating all of those new methods for voting, the least of which is definitely exhibiting up and voting, and if Republicans intend to win, they must do the identical factor and be higher at it.
Have a look at this election in New York. The Democrats banked their early votes. You had a snowstorm. Republicans didn’t end up within the numbers and so they misplaced the seat. So I don’t prefer it, however it’s the character of the beast. And so, typically, you bought to do what you don’t like.
- astead herndon
-
Yeah. I’m enthusiastic about that. As a result of clearly, Donald Trump has not taken that tactic. He’s known as it corrupt. And even because the RNC has gotten nearer to making an attempt to embrace issues like that, he’s stayed away from it. Does he have to vary that language to have a greater probability at profitable in November?
- mark levin
-
Now, you’re interviewing me, proper?
- astead herndon
-
I’m.
- mark levin
-
OK. You may ask the president himself. However I feel I’ve heard him say, we bought to get out early. We bought to vote early, and so forth. However that’s my view.
- astead herndon
-
Simply my final query could be like, in case you may distill what you suppose this election shall be about, the place will or not it’s gained and misplaced, and who you suppose will resolve it?
- mark levin
-
Properly, that’s a variety of questions there.
- astead herndon
-
Yeah. I’m simply asking you to foretell the entire thing.
- mark levin
-
Properly, it’s going to be turnout, because it all the time is. I ignore all of the polls as a result of they’re not solely virtually all the time unsuitable, however what’s the purpose? What is going to the election be about?
- astead herndon
-
What do you suppose the core points which can be going to be the deciding —
- mark levin
-
Properly, I feel it will be immigration. I feel it will be dinner desk points. However I additionally suppose it’s going to be larger than that for lots of people. Loads of us right here suppose we’re proper on the precipice of dropping our nation.
And we blame the Democrat get together and what Biden is doing by government fiat, what he’s doing on the border by government fiat, what he’s accomplished to ladies’s sports activities by government fiat, the big quantity of spending. And by the way in which, the Democrats aren’t alone in that. The Republicans, too, driving up the debt, the curiosity.
Individuals now know what which means with inflation. So that is going to be a really significant election, you already know? Some elections are extra necessary than others. However to folks like me, it is a doozy.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks. We actually recognize your time.
- mark levin
-
No drawback in any respect.
- astead herndon
-
Have an awesome day.
- mark levin
-
Thanks in your integrity in asking questions that I feel are very attention-grabbing.
- astead herndon
-
I attempt. I attempt to so thanks. I recognize it. You must take heed to our present. We now have a variety of conservatives on.
- anna foley
-
It’s known as “The Run-Up.”
- astead herndon
-
Yeah, “The Run-Up.” You must test it out. “The Run-Up.” Like, yeah. Thanks.
- mark levin
-
Hearken to mine, too.
- astead herndon
-
I do! Once in a while.
Jack Posobiec and Mark Levin have appreciable affect. After they discuss, conservatives hear. So it’s notable that they, like Lara Trump, appear to be pleading with the previous President and his base to simply accept all of the methods it’s doable to vote. However I used to be skeptical of how that message was touchdown, particularly amongst Trump’s base and particularly at CPAC, the place the 2020 election conspiracies are nonetheless widespread.
- astead herndon
-
We talked to you final 12 months. Do not forget that?
- mike lindell
-
No, however who’re you from?
- astead herndon
-
We’re from “The New York Occasions.” We did the politics podcast?
- mike lindell
-
Oh, yeah. Let’s go over right here, fast.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks.
So I needed to speak with one of many loudest voices related to Trump’s election lies.
- astead herndon
-
Are you able to introduce your self once more for the microphone?
- mike lindell
-
Mike Lindell.
You may keep in mind Mike Lindell for lots of causes. He’s the CEO of MyPillow, an in depth ally of Donald Trump, and we interviewed him final 12 months at CPAC, the identical 12 months he ran for RNC chair towards Ronna McDaniel. However most notably, he’s an outspoken critic of digital voting machines. Lindell stated he spent greater than $40 million on his trigger, although lately he stated he solely has $10,000 to his identify.
- astead herndon
-
How are issues going lately?
- mike lindell
-
Properly, ever since I got here out with the plan to safe our elections in August, which is at TheLindellPlan.com, I’ve been attacked and my firm’s been attacked greater than any time in historical past.
- astead herndon
-
And I keep in mind final time, you had been saying the way you confronted a variety of assaults in your earlier advocacy. Nevertheless it looks like issues have ramped up within the final three —
- mike lindell
-
As a result of it’s not about flipping the 2020 election. I need to do away with the digital voting machines and go to paper ballots, hand counting. That’s what we’re at now. I had the proper plan laid out. We bought to have truthful and safe elections. And that’s what we’re doing. My plan, I’ve over 300,000 folks on the bottom in all 50 states.
- astead herndon
-
I noticed an article within the Related Press lately that stated that your advocacy has price you financially, and that you just hadn’t labored —
- mike lindell
-
All I’ve left is a pickup truck and my home I stay in, however —
- astead herndon
-
I keep in mind you saying final 12 months that you just didn’t care if it type of —
- mike lindell
-
I wouldn’t change a factor.
- astead herndon
-
Is that also the place you might be?
- mike lindell
-
Yeah, completely. I’m making an attempt to avoid wasting the nation right here.
- astead herndon
-
One of many causes I needed to speak to you is as a result of there does appear to be somewhat little bit of a cut up rising by way of how folks ought to vote for November. I heard Lara Trump, who is likely to be the subsequent co-chair of the RNC, saying she needs Republicans to vote.
- mike lindell
-
She bought virtually booed, didn’t she?
- astead herndon
-
I used to be interested in what you considered that as a result of —
- mike lindell
-
100%, she’s unsuitable. 100. Not 99, 100% unsuitable. You have to vote similar day. I do know every little thing about this. I’ve studied for 3 years and put every little thing I’ve into it. The early voting and all that mail-in voting and stuff has to go. And in case you’re a Republican or whoever you might be, in case you’re a Democrat, it doesn’t matter. When you’re an individual on the market and also you need your vote to have the least means of getting it stalled is on election day.
From Lindell’s perspective, what Lara Trump was proposing was not solely a mistake for the Republican Occasion, but additionally a departure from the imaginative and prescient of the get together he helped create.
- mike lindell
-
The RNC handed a decision. And in that decision, same-day voting, paper ballots, hand counting, precinct degree, and voter ID. That decision handed — prepared for this — 168 to 0. So anybody on the market that’s with the RNC, or anyone fascinated about operating on the RNC that claims let’s vote early and all this different garbage, Lara Trump is unsuitable. I don’t know what else to inform her. You understand, and I do know her. She’s a pal of mine. She’s simply misconstrued. She’s misconstrued. She — no matter they’re telling her, and the RNC in the event that they’re telling her, hey, are available in and be our chair.
Flawed! You may’t have a chair that doesn’t perceive all of the voting course of and the way we now have to repair these platforms.
Within the newest blow to Lindell’s trigger, a decide lately gave him 30 days to pay $5 million to a software program professional who disproved Lindell’s claims that the 2020 election was stolen. However Lindell isn’t prepared to surrender on the combat, not within the authorized instances and never within the Republican Occasion management.
- mike lindell
-
You guys! You’ve bought to go to paper ballots, hand counted. I can preserve taking bullets. I don’t care. I’m by no means going to cease speaking about making an attempt to avoid wasting our nation with paper ballots, hand counting, and everyone votes similar day. Don’t take heed to anybody on that stage that claims something aside from that.
- astead herndon
-
You don’t care in regards to the cash you’re dropping?
- mike lindell
-
What do I do? I gained’t — I gained’t have a rustic anyway. I’m out 40 million. You understand what I’ve left? My pickup truck and the home I lived in when it was began. And folks say to me on a regular basis, would you modify something? Do you remorse something? No!
What I want now could be folks to donate to TheLindellPlan.com to complete what we’re beginning. We’re 90 p.c there. When all these elections — you guys shall be thanking me for nonetheless having a job two years from now, and going, wow, what an idea! Paper ballots, hand counted. We removed the digital, crooked voting machine. Lovely.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks a lot. I recognize your time, man. I recognize it.
- mike lindell
-
Thanks. Yep.
I talked to Lindell at one far finish of the convention heart and Posobiec and Levin on the exact opposite facet. It felt like the proper picture to characterize the place they stood on the problem — far aside with compromise troublesome to think about. However how had been the attendees of CPAC fascinated about their vote, and if they’ll belief it in 2024? That, plus Donald Trump, after the break.
- astead herndon
-
Let’s see what we bought. The very first thing you see upon entry is the John Frederick Present’s MAGA Bus Tour. Trump for President 2024.
One of many largest issues at CPAC, actually, was a bus parked in CPAC Central. On it was a large head shot of Donald Trump.
- astead herndon
-
And lots of people are utilizing markers to signal the bus and ship a message of help to Trump. Cops for Trump. We now have your again. God bless you.
Individuals left notes, inside jokes, I used to be heres.
- anna foley
-
71 rallies up to now. I need a pic with my prez.
- astead herndon
-
Wow.
It was just like the MAGA model of a center faculty yearbook.
- astead herndon
-
The American dream is actual, because of MAGA and America first. Thanks, 45/47.
And confirmed the whole dedication this crowd has to Donald Trump.
- astead herndon
-
The one factor certain about President Trump is nothing is for certain. And that’s why we love you. God bless you and your loved ones, sir. The actual president.
I puzzled how the attendees at CPAC felt in regards to the altering tides I used to be seeing in terms of voting and belief in elections. Have been they as open to vary because the leaders we heard earlier? Has their perspective shifted since 2020?
- astead herndon
-
Hello, you all. My identify is Astead. That is Anna. We’re from “The New York Occasions.” We work for the politics podcast. We’re speaking to folks at present about what introduced them to CPAC, but additionally what they’re fascinated about November and Trump’s prospects of profitable? You all have 5, 10 minutes to speak with us?
- jim hansen
-
Certain.
- samantha rove
-
Certain!
- astead herndon
-
Thanks. Are you able to inform me your names, inform me what introduced you to CPAC? The place are you from?
- jim hansen
-
I’m Jim Hansen. We stay throughout the river and we play this recreation.
- samantha rove
-
I’m Samantha Rove and proper right here, Arlington, throughout the river.
- astead herndon
-
Yeah, yeah. So that you all have been to CPAC earlier than?
- samantha rove
-
Yeah, we now have.
- jim hansen
-
Many instances.
- astead herndon
-
One of many issues we’ve been following right here is how the Trump devoted talks about sure points, and the way they discuss profitable, you already know? We’ve talked to folks about whether or not they belief the outcomes, about whether or not they’ll vote by mail, issues like that. Would you all take into account your self Trump supporters, simply to verify?
- samantha rove
-
I’m a conservative supporter. I don’t help Trump personally. I imply, I’m speaking about me, my private place on this. However when he’s the nominee, he’s bought my vote.
- jim hansen
-
I’ll vote for the Republican nominee as a result of I’m voting towards the Democratic agenda. And Trump’s going to be our nominee. And I’m really wanting ahead to — I feel the attention-grabbing factor is now that it appears to be like just like the Democrats are going to stay with Biden, I feel he may win. I used to be fairly pessimistic for fairly some time.
- astead herndon
-
You suppose who may win? I’m sorry.
- jim hansen
-
Would possibly win. Biden is a superb candidate for him to run towards as a result of he’s principally not there. You understand, he’s operating towards an empty go well with. And I feel Trump can rile the gang up and say, had been issues higher once I was president? They demonstrably had been. Is the world on hearth? It demonstrably is. Don’t you need issues to be like they had been again within the day? And lots of people do.
- astead herndon
-
In order that’s attention-grabbing. You’re saying you had been skeptical of Trump’s potential to win. However you’ve modified in current time. What drove that change. Is it simply seeing Biden or what?
- jim hansen
-
I feel Joe Biden has helped Trump’s probabilities of victory immensely by destroying our economic system, by destroying our overseas coverage, by being a pushover that emboldened tyrants all over the world. I can’t consider something he’s accomplished proper besides attempt to purchase votes by paying off pupil loans and issues like that.
And I don’t suppose it’s working. I feel he’s shedding constituents at a price that’s unsustainable. And I feel proper now, I’d put it 51-49 Trump if Biden is the nominee.
- astead herndon
-
You understand, in there, we had been simply listening to Lara Trump discuss taking on the RNC, or making an attempt to. And he or she was saying how she thinks Republicans have to embrace voting early. I’m curious for you all who’re conservatives, like, how have you considered the way in which that Trump and the type of ecosystem has talked in regards to the system of voting and actually solid doubt on its legitimacy? After which, extra so, what do you suppose must occur for November in order that the Republican nominee can win?
- jim hansen
-
It was a mistake for Trump to crap throughout early voting and absentee voting as a result of that’s why he misplaced. It was a mistake to say we shouldn’t do it as a result of the left used it and counted each poll, even ones that shouldn’t have been. So I feel that being stated, poll harvesting, poll banking, no matter you need to name it’s the smartest factor we are able to do proper now as a result of it’s the foundations.
If that’s the foundations, play by the foundations. Step all the way in which as much as the road on the foundations and do every little thing you’ll be able to as a result of the Democrats are. And so, you’re giving freely votes by not doing that. We have to register, get ballots out, harvest these ballots, and get them in simply to maintain up.
- astead herndon
-
It’s attention-grabbing as a result of that makes full, logical sense. However Donald Trump is busy saying the other proper now, and persevering with his type of battle on mail-in ballots and poll harvesting and calling it corrupt. And part of me sees this cut up display, the place I’m like, it’s the guidelines. And also you do have some components of the get together who are actually saying you need to play by them. However the largest and most necessary voice continues to be speaking about corruption. I imply, who wins in that, you already know?
- jim hansen
-
Hopefully, there shall be sufficient people who find themselves saying, look, let him — as a result of he’s not going to recover from 2020. I don’t blame him, all proper? There have been some issues he talked about that weren’t true, however that election was the worst election in US historical past. I don’t suppose there’s been a worse one.
- samantha rove
-
And I feel —
- astead herndon
-
I need to hear you on this since you don’t seem to be somebody who’s absolutely in, who’s simply believes every little thing Trump says. So I’m saying for you, why is that the worst election in historical past?
- jim hansen
-
Due to what I stated about the way in which they modified the foundations in main swing states. And so they counted ballots that might not have been counted in any earlier election. There have been so many issues that had been accomplished that ought to have been adjudicated in Trump’s favor that weren’t for no matter cause.
And I feel there have been sufficient votes in these locations that I feel the election would have flipped. I feel he would have gained if the identical guidelines that had been utilized in even 2018 had been utilized in 2020, Trump would have gained. So I don’t blame him. I don’t blame him for being mad. I feel it’s counterproductive to let that override win this time.
- samantha rove
-
As an alternative of wanting backwards on these items, which I feel is type of a fault of too many individuals proper now — and that’s what you’re alluding to — let’s look ahead. And ahead is what we have to do is, we have to meet the letter of the regulation. And I’m with Jim. We have to get our toes proper as much as that line.
I don’t advocate for breaking the regulation. I don’t even advocate for dishonest. I don’t suppose we have to, however we have to play the sport. It’s like, OK, it’s a soccer recreation. Don’t carry a basketball. OK? You understand? It’s soccer, don’t carry a tennis racket.
- astead herndon
-
It does seem to be Republicans are voluntarily disarming on these couple factors to fulfill folks’s upsetness over 2020. For you all, like, if there’s a factor that you just suppose the get together wants to consider to win in November — as a result of it looks like that’s the objective right here, proper?
Is it any such stuff we’re speaking about? The technique, logistics stuff? Is it a message factor? Like, what could be your direct message to the Trump marketing campaign? In the event that they’re listening to this podcast, what would you say that they should do to win?
- jim hansen
-
Get on the message of bringing again the nice outdated days. All proper? Individuals had cash of their 401(okay). We weren’t at battle in a bunch of locations all over the world. There are a variety of issues to speak about that had been higher than they’re now. Get off the election of 2020 as the explanation for him to win this time, and level out that his financial insurance policies had been higher and he’ll cease the executive state from destroying the lives of individuals they disagree with.
- samantha rove
-
Your message to Trump? Suppose ahead, not backwards. 2020 is finished. It’s over. And we have to give attention to what’s going to occur subsequent. We have to have a look at how we are able to do it one of the best we presumably can. And the message must be, discuss what folks care about, not simply what’s going to ignite the fury.
Yeah, we are able to all get mad about 2020, however OK, that was 2020. It’s now 2024. And let’s do what we have to do now by specializing in the problems that matter to folks. What issues? Economics, the border, we have to discuss crime. We have to discuss a few of our nationwide safety insurance policies. These are issues that matter. Give attention to that and give attention to 2024. And if it occurred earlier than 2024, simply shut it.
- astead herndon
-
It’s very nice assembly you all. I recognize your time.
- jim hansen
-
Pleasure.
- astead herndon
-
Yeah, thanks. Have an awesome day. Y’all have an awesome day.
- jim hansen
-
All proper.
We didn’t must ask to interview the subsequent folks we spoke to.
- astead herndon
-
We’re doing interviews. We’re on the lookout for some — we’re wanting —
They requested us.
- astead herndon
-
Inform me about your self.
- edward x. younger
-
Properly, I’ve been to 71 Trump rallies.
- astead herndon
-
71 Trump rallies? I feel I noticed your signature on the Trump bus. You stated you had been making an attempt to get an image.
- edward x. younger
-
That’s proper. I need a image with him.
- astead herndon
-
You haven’t been capable of get an image within the 71 —
- edward x. younger
-
I’ve bought three signed MAGA hats.
- astead herndon
-
Three signed MAGA hats.
- edward x. younger
-
And he has tweeted me and talked about my identify twice. He has talked to me from the stage on about 8 or 9 events, however I haven’t gotten an image with him but.
- astead herndon
-
Man, I’m sorry for you.
- edward x. younger
-
That’s proper. However — however I’ve additionally — I used to be there on January 6.
- astead herndon
-
The place are you from?
- edward x. younger
-
New Jersey.
- astead herndon
-
Why did you — what introduced you to the capital on the sixth?
- edward x. younger
-
It was my fiftieth Trump rally. He was giving a giant speech there. It was a rally. It was quantity 50 for me.
- astead herndon
-
I imply —
- edward x. younger
-
I needed to see my hero.
- astead herndon
-
Uh-huh. Is there something — was there something particular to that rally that made you, like — that wasn’t only a — I imply, I’ve been to Trump rallies, too. That wasn’t only a rally.
- edward x. younger
-
The election was stolen. It was so apparent. And I noticed it with my very own eyes as a result of I labored as — I labored within the campaigns. It was so clearly stolen. And we had been indignant. However no one was plotting to overthrow the federal government. All the things you hear on the information is a lie, discuss to anyone who’s been there.
- astead herndon
-
Yeah, yeah. I’m transferring on from that. I’m really fascinated about going ahead. I imply, in case you’re somebody who believes that the 2020 election wasn’t pretty determined, how do you’re feeling about 2024?
- edward x. younger
-
I feel if that is an sincere election, Trump will win in a larger landslide than Ronald Reagan. I feel he’ll get all 50 states. I’ve been everywhere in the nation. However I don’t suppose we’re going to have an sincere election. I imagine the Democrats will cheat like we’ve by no means imagined.
And I feel that they’ll do it so out within the open, crimes shall be dedicated earlier than our eyes. They’ll dare us to arrest them. They’ll break each rule. It’ll be by any means needed, throw every little thing towards the wall and see what sticks.
- astead herndon
-
So with that assumption, what ought to the Republican Occasion do? I imply, we simply noticed Lara Trump saying that Republicans have to suppose forward, that they need to embrace issues like early voting. Because you anticipate Democrats to do quote unquote “dishonest” forward of November, what ought to Republicans do to make sure what I think about is your required final result, which is that Trump is the subsequent president?
- edward x. younger
-
Properly, I imply, the place there are Democrat governors in states we’re going to lose anyhow, in cities we’re going to lose, we’re screwed. However I feel the place Republicans are in management, we higher implement some sturdy election legal guidelines. And we higher arrest folks, prosecute them, and imprison them in the event that they’re caught participating in election fraud.
- mike o’neill
-
It’s fraught with fraud in all places. I used to be dwelling in Hawaii throughout 2020. And Hawaii doesn’t have going to the polls and voting. They’ve mail-in voting and that’s it. And the field I needed to put my poll in was in an empty car parking zone.
- astead herndon
-
Lara Trump was simply on stage saying the Republicans have to embrace poll harvesting, that they need to be enjoying — doing the identical factor the Democrats are doing.
- mike o’neill
-
So long as it’s not unlawful, go for it.
- astead herndon
-
Is there one thing that may occur between now and November that can make you all belief the election outcomes?
- mike o’neill
-
Are you severe?
- edward x. younger
-
The best way they’re — the way in which they’re now? No. No. We want one election day. You vote, you’ve got voter ID. You don’t have voter ID, you don’t vote.
- mike o’neill
-
We shouldn’t have election month or two months or nevertheless lengthy that’s.
- edward x. younger
-
It’s election season now!
- mike o’neill
-
That’s a bunch of BS.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks all a lot for chatting with us. Can we now have your names, please?
- edward x. younger
-
My identify is Edward X. Younger from Brick, New Jersey.
- mike o’neill
-
Mike O’Neill from St. Louis, Missouri.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks.
- anna foley
-
Thanks.
- astead herndon
-
Query. Hello, how are you all? My identify is Astead. That is Anna. We’re from “The New York Occasions.” We work for the politics podcast there. And we’re speaking to folks right here about CPAC, about what made them come, and particularly what they consider Trump’s prospects in November. Do you all have a few minutes to speak with us?
- lily
-
Certain.
- astead herndon
-
Certain?
- lily
-
Yeah.
- astead herndon
-
Thanks. Are you able to inform me your identify and the place you’re from?
- lily
-
I’m Lily from Brazil.
- astead herndon
-
Lily from Brazil. Do you reside within the States, or do you come —
- lily
-
I stay in Orlando, Florida. Sure.
- astead herndon
-
Orlando, Florida. Superior. And also you got here for CPAC.
- lily
-
Sure.
- astead herndon
-
Is that this your first one or have you ever been earlier than?
- lily
-
No, I’ve been to many.
- astead herndon
-
You’ve been to many? Do you vote in America or no?
- lily
-
Not but. This 12 months, I shall be voting in America. Sure.
- astead herndon
-
This 12 months shall be your first?
- lily
-
I’m — I’m changing into a citizen myself.
- astead herndon
-
Oh, congratulations. Who’re you going to vote for? I feel I do know.
- lily
-
100%, you already know that already.
- astead herndon
-
I want you to say it, although, for the microphone.
- lily
-
Sure, Donald J. Trump, one of the best president America has ever had.
- astead herndon
-
How do you — assured do you’re feeling in Trump’s potential to come back again?
- lily
-
I really feel assured in the event that they don’t rig the elections once more! In the event that they don’t steal it, I really feel assured that he may win. As a result of you already know what? What I’ve been listening to is that persons are drained from the border invasion. Persons are drained to see a weak president that can’t characterize the US. And that is the most important, biggest nation on Earth.
- astead herndon
-
What would make you belief the system? You talked about the way you thought it was rigged final time. I suppose I’m questioning developing now, do you’ve got confidence within the election to be truthful?
- lily
-
Probably not, however I imply, we nonetheless bought to do our components, proper? We nonetheless bought to come back out and vote. We nonetheless have to indicate patriotism. And we nonetheless bought to do our components. We nonetheless bought to be sincere and respect one another and ensuring that we’re doing no matter we are able to for a greater society.
- astead herndon
-
Do you’ve got any thought of the way you’re going to vote? In Florida, there’s vote by mail. There’s — I’ve heard lots of people right here discuss whether or not voting by mail is protected or whether or not they fear about it being corrupt or whether or not they need to go in particular person. Have you ever ever put any thought into the way you need to vote?
- lily
-
Probably not, as a result of Florida is totally different. Florida is — Ron DeSantis — Ron DeSantis is ensuring that issues keep truthful, and the integrity of the elections are stored.
- astead herndon
-
So that you say you don’t have any fears about Florida since you suppose Ron DeSantis will be sure that Florida is pretty counted.
- lily
-
He’s been saying that. However, you already know, I worry for the remainder of the nation. You by no means know.
- astead herndon
-
Do you are worried that the discuss of a rigged election will get folks — some individuals who even agree with you — to not need to take part? Proper? Don’t you need to imagine that the factor is truthful to do it? You understand, I imply, doesn’t that damage the probabilities of Trump profitable?
- lily
-
Look, it’s arduous to say. As a result of I’m a Christian, a variety of these persons are Christians. Proper? The Bible tells us. There’s a ebook in the long run, the Guide of Revelations, that tells us that a variety of bizarre stuff, corrupt stuff, nonsense goes to occur. And we’re going to must cope with it. However we are able to by no means cease believing or cease preventing or cease doing what’s proper.
- astead herndon
-
Have a very good day.
- lily
-
You too, guys.
- speaker 1
-
Women and gents, please welcome the subsequent President of the US, President Donald J. Trump!
Donald Trump spoke on the final day of CPAC.
- donald trump
-
It is a good crowd. That’s a gorgeous crowd. Thanks. That’s an awesome honor. They’ve rooms —
And whereas I wasn’t anticipating him to say endorse mail-in ballots or poll harvesting, I did need to take heed to see if he’d moved on from 2020 or not.
- donald trump
-
We now have to interrupt out of the nightmare that we’re in.
In his speech, Trump offered a transparent reply, a easy flowchart to grasp how he thinks about 2024 and the query of election integrity.
- donald trump
-
Make America richer and safer and stronger and prouder and extra stunning than ever earlier than. I feel we now have a ultimate shot at it. But when we don’t do properly on this subsequent election, or in the event that they cheat sufficient that they’ll steal it — which is I feel the one means they’ll win.
If he loses, it’s fraud.
- donald trump
-
Your victory shall be our final vindication.
If he wins, not solely is it a victory for his base, however it’s payback for final time.
- donald trump
-
— reward and the unprecedented success of the US of America shall be my final and absolute revenge. That’s what I would like success shall be our revenge.
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That’s “The Run-Up” for Thursday, February 29, 2024. Now, the rundown.
- archived recording (speaker 2)
-
They’re going to have an evening like we’ve by no means seen for a protest vote in Michigan.
On Tuesday evening, President Biden gained the Michigan Democratic major with 81 p.c of the vote. Nonetheless, greater than 100,000 folks, that’s greater than 13 p.c of Democratic major voters, solid a poll for uncommitted after organizers inspired Michigan residents to make use of the first to protest the administration’s dealing with of the battle in Gaza.
Organizers of the uncommitted marketing campaign have been calling for a direct ceasefire, and have warned that Biden’s failure to vary his place may price him in November.
And within the Michigan Republican major, Donald Trump clinched his sixth straight victory. He bought 68 p.c of the vote to Nikki Haley’s 27 p.c. Regardless of that —
- archived recording (nikki haley)
-
I imply, we’re in all of the Tremendous Tuesday states now. That’s what that is all about, is ensuring that we hit each state and letting them know, look, there’s a voice on the market for you. There’s a means out. Sure, we’re preventing by way of. Sure.
Haley stated she’d keep within the race by way of Tremendous Tuesday. That’s now 5 days away. And we’re now 250 days away from the final election.
See you subsequent week.
“The Run-Up” is reported by me, Astead Herndon, and produced by Alisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O’Keefe, and Anna Foley. It’s edited by Rachel Dry, Lisa Tobin, and Frannie Carr Toth. With unique music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Lanman, and Elisheba Ittoop. It was blended by Sophia Lanman and fact-checked by Caitlin Love.
Particular Because of Paula Szuchman, Sam Dolnick, Larissa Anderson, David Halbfinger, Maddy Masiello, Mahima Chablani, and Jeffrey Miranda. Do you’ve got a query in regards to the 2024 election? Electronic mail us at TheRunUp@nytimes.com. Or higher but, document your query utilizing the voice memo app in your cellphone after which ship us the file.
The e-mail once more is TheRunUp@nytimes.com. And at last, in case you just like the present and need to get updates on newest episodes, comply with our feed wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, y’all.
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